I had an A in self-flagellation

The coronavirus has turned everything upside down. You’ve experienced this yourself...

I’ve been quarantined twice. In March it was preventive, because the test was negative and now, in October, because it’s positive. I went through the virus asymptomatically, in isolation. When I found out I was infected, the first thing I felt was fear for my loved ones. Who I’d had contact with, whom to notify – in my head, like on a film tape, I analysed every moment. Cancel everything. The costs were enormous, as none of the performances happened and starring in a film went up in flames because the shooting couldn’t wait and I was replaced by another actress. But responsibility for others is more important.

We’re taking the biggest test of humanity right now. We can pass it by not infecting others or by helping the infected, like our neighbours who left us groceries on the fence. I’ve decided to donate my plasma for COVID patients after my quarantine is over. I have a rare B-negative blood type, no coexisting diseases. And my plasma can save lives of patients with severe COVID cases or improve the course of the disease.

How can we remain optimistic during this difficult time?

It’s hard, but you can’t give up. Culture is an area in which restrictions are strictly adhered to. We act for less, but the fact that we can share our talents and emotions is the most important. I haven’t heard of anyone deciding not to act with drastically reduced fees.

We’ll hang on till the last viewer. We are proud and happy with every mask we see in the audience – we cannot betray anyone’s trust. Well, unless there’s a complete lockdown and the theatres close again.

Looking at the number of projects you’re involved in, you clearly enjoy working.

Yes! And I have a certain hyperactivity. I mean, action, such as cleaning the kitchen, calms me down. I’m a working housewife. Just like most women in our country. I feel fulfilled. My family is everything to me.

You once said that you’re like the wind that blows in through one window, passes through the whole flat, and comes out the other end.

Sometimes the wind will scatter everything and leave it like that. (laughs) I’m an energetic person. I don’t think: okay, I’m in my fifties, I’m going to act a little bit longer, just until I retire and somehow it’ll just work out... Instead, I think: “Boy, what a great time I’m having right now! The girls have moved out of the house, started their own lives, I have so much to do!”

Your daughters have put their foot down?

Yes. They miraculously removed me from their world, because I, like a mother hen running after her chicks, would make sure that they drank from the puddle from which they needed to drink, or ate when they should, or kept worrying whether anything bad would happen to them. They didn’t say, “Mum, stay out of this!” They just set up a confederation against me, which was to keep me in the dark about everything. (laughs) And they asked if I had made any mistakes in my life. Of course I’ve made a lot of mistakes. “Did you learn anything from them?” From some of them I did, from some unfortunately not and I had to burn myself four more times to learn to be a little assertive. “Bingo,” they said. “Are you going to let us get burned now?”

Ola was 26 at the time and Zuzia was 20. Now they’re 32 and 26 respectively. They’re walking their own paths. The younger one is a doctor and now, during the pandemic, I’m scared about her life and health every day.

Do you feel good about having more space to yourself?

Yes. The girls have become fantastically independent. And our relationship has become “calmer”. We talk about difficult things, we look for solutions. And the older I get, the more convinced I am that conversation is key. C o n v e r s a t i o n. With every person and on every topic.

So, talking and listening?

Exactly. I think listening is especially important when it comes to people we don’t know.

This is how I was brought up by strong women, by my grandmother and mother. My father was also empathetic, he convinced me that you should pay attention to people. Even conflicts can be straightened out and explained with a conversation. We don’t have to admit the other person is correct right away, that’s the biggest problem, but we can talk in order to be able to understand. Sometimes people ask me for advice, and I’m the last person to give it to them. I have this wonderful thought that I’ve borrowed from someone, “I advise you to do as you please!” I can give you a hint, I can point something out, but I’ll never say anything outright. This is the privilege of a mature woman – to enjoy life, to embrace what it gives. I stopped worrying about failures because they’ve been, are, and will be with me all my life, and I want to enjoy every little moment.

So stop whipping yourself.

Yes, exactly! I had an A in self-flagellation. In comparing myself to others and the need to please everyone. I have already completely liberated myself from the desire to be really good in every field. I got burned, I got my ass kicked a couple of times, and it’s a good thing I did. And today, even a small role, any role – is a wonderful challenge. I’m pleased with every idea I come up with in the context of my recitals or musical one-person shows. Also – going out with your daughters for coffee or a sudden, spontaneous trip with your husband, having wine with a friend. Enjoying the little things. You know why? It’s me, Kasia, to whom it shows that someone needs me in their life. And to be needed, you have to act, you have to do something. Don’t you think?

Of course, you can’t just sit around and wait for the world to come to you, you have to get out there.

Exactly. So I’m getting out there artistically. I act in two theatres in Warsaw – Och-Teatr and Teatr Komedia. I’ve got a small part in a comedy show, which I’m very happy about. I no longer have the strength to fight the image of a comedy actress – if that’s how directors perceive me and the audience expects it, so be it. The world around us is so sad. I mostly laugh at myself and my imperfections in these characters. There is also a film role around the corner, shifted a little by the pandemic, and there is music that fills my life a lot.

Records, acting recitals, concerts… Music complements acting.

There’s another challenge waiting for me in music. After “Miłosna Osiecka”, Grzegorz Wasowski approached me, asking if I would like to take on the interpretation of Jerzy Wasowski’s songs, and not just those he wrote with Jeremy Przybora, but also different ones, since he also wrote with Wojciech Młynarski and various other authors. He sent me about 40 songs and I’ve chosen 20 so far. It’s going to be a new album, an absolutely new recital. It’s a huge musical and textual space.

I’ve seen you in action many times, talking to people, talking to women. It’s so easy to like you. Women love you because you’re not distant, you’re close to them.

Thank you. I think honesty in emotions is the most important thing. Sometimes I have difficult conversations, sometimes someone asks me about things I don’t want to talk about, and it would be easiest to get offended, get up and leave, but through respect for the other person, I try to mitigate, to alleviate conflicts. Understand that everyone has the right to make mistakes, to be different. To their own opinion. I try not to pretend anything.

Is acting not pretending?

No, acting is working with emotions. When an actor starts to pretend, the viewer can feel it right away. It’s the same with pretending to be someone you’re not. It’ll come out, whether it be the first or the fifteenth minute of a conversation. And it’s a waste of my life to pretend.

You’ve recently been engrossed in building the hospice in Chojnice.

I can’t believe this is happening in my life! I went to the “Poetry Night” in Chojnice and sang a short recital before Stanisław Sojka, I thought I was going to lose my mind with all the stress. And then, late at night, two doctors who had founded a travelling hospice for the bedridden, mainly oncological patients, told me that they were dreaming of building a hospice in Chojnice. They’d already talked to the authorities of the commune, they got a piece of land in the park, in a beautiful place. I saw this huge hole and two absolutely passionate women standing above it (the third one had already established the Society of Friends of the Hospice) and I thought to myself: they’re insane! Even with my optimism, this is impossible. Did they know how much it would cost and how we would collect it? They wanted to organise a concert, sell supporters’ bricks.

I started by writing letters to sponsors, construction companies, privately. I wrote that I don’t know anything, that we aren’t asking for money, only for leftover materials, e.g. a few bags of cement or sand. I talked to people who worked at various foundations about how to apply for funds, and I met with the authorities. Everyone said there was no money with a smile on their face, and I would tell them to help find a solution. It was quite the uphill battle. After six years, the three-wing building is now standing! Plastered, roofed. There are windows. There are plenty more things to be done inside and out, but I am really grateful to all the people who helped!

You are also involved in many other projects, such as environmental protection.

I work with MSC Polska [Marine Stewardship Council, an organisation that promotes sustainable fisheries]. In this age of global warming, each of us can do so much by doing so little. All you have to do is turn off the lights, segregate the rubbish, not drive the car if you don’t have to. At the theatre, I turn off all the lights and yell at everyone to turn the water off. When they look at me strangely, I say that I’m from Toruń and I had a German upbringing. (laughs)

You promote reading, encourage women to have regular mammograms and cytology checks, raise money for the first prosthetic heart for children. How do you find the time for all of this?

I’m already refusing a lot of things because I don’t have time. Besides, by doing everything a person becomes untrustworthy. But when I get invited to talk about activating 50+ women, I’m there.

Do women wonder what Solejukowa looks like?

Of course. Solejukowa’s story comes up every time. And how much I influenced the character. I always say I didn’t influence it at all, it was all the scriptwriters. This character, who developed so wonderfully in the series “Ranczo”, showed us Poles that we really don’t need to stay in the background, we can do much more. She went through a big change – from that woman in the first episode, who wouldn’t even make dumplings, but tolerated poverty at home, her husband’s drunkenness and physical violence, to a woman who got into business, changed the home, took care of the children’s education and studied with them. So she took fate into her own hands and showed women in Poland that you can!

She encourages women who don’t believe in themselves, in their own abilities.

That’s why talking about it is so important. I get tons of emails asking for approval to use Solejukowa’s image, which I can’t do because I don’t have the rights to the character. But I congratulate these women and keep my fingers crossed for them. One, abandoned by her husband, set up a dumpling restaurant. Another – a language club in her commune. Yet another noticed that grandparents and grandchildren can learn English together. It was Solejukowa who was the source of the idea. Not me, but the character I was playing.

What did you learn from Solejukowa?

To believe that there is great power in women. That despite our mood swings and emotionality, which sometimes bother us because while women are genetically conditioned to burn out, men stay calm, there is strength and power in us. As grandma said, behind every husband’s success there is a wise woman.

And who is behind the success of a woman?

Her desire for self-fulfilment. A woman’s ambition. Although I think it’s good to have time for ourselves in this independence of ours. Sometimes I tell Cezary, “Today my duty is that of a queen. I lie, I read, I smell fragrant.” It’s important that I don’t constantly have to explain what I do for an hour and a half at the hairdresser’s. I say that’s just what princesses do. I mean, a guy who’s bald can’t understand that. But, of course, the success of women is largely due to men. Strong fathers, good brothers. Nice, responsible husbands or partners. Those who are patient with us, who welcome us just the way we are and support us. When I come up with another idea, my husband looks at me for a long time and only nods to show that it’s all pretty infeasible. But he doesn’t say no. He doesn’t clip my wings. He just says, “Fine, you want to do it, go ahead, try. If you get burned, oh well.”

Do you need his approval?

Of course! The worst men are those who bully women. She hasn’t even started yet, and he’s already saying “no”. I have enormous support from my entire family, and that is the most important thing for me. Because I can act. Because when I do nice things for others, I’m doing them for myself. It’s my investment and my capital.

Who cooks at home?

Cezary. I bake cakes, he doesn’t. I clean. I’m a rag master. I relax while doing the ironing. But I have to do it regularly, because when I have clothes piling up, especially men’s shirts, the aggressive in me comes to the surface. I’ve learned that regularity in household chores makes my life a lot easier, and even when I’m very tired, I want to whip through at least four things, because tomorrow I’ll have four less to do. This regularity in my old age is good for me.

When does old age begin?

Old age begins in the mind. I think I’m pretty mature now. But deep down, I’m still a bit of an air-head. (laughs) I have a joy of life, an incredible inner affirmation. Although my husband thinks I’m a pessimist. Because my first thought usually is, “It’s not going to work. No… I’m not cut out for this… Can I handle it?”

Like most women. What helps you overcome these negative thoughts?

I catch myself doing it – if you don’t try, you won’t know. Just give yourself a chance. Cezary also tries to get that way of thinking out of my head too.

You’re celebrating your 35th anniversary this year.

This is unique, not just in our industry. Apparently, the most divorces happen around the age of 50, when children begin to become independent. And either the man finds himself a younger model, or a woman wants something different from life.

You don’t feel the need for such a change?

No! Grandma always used to say, “Respect your husband, you could always have a worse one.” My husband and I are very good friends. And I value this friendship more than anything. Even if we disagree, we love being together, talking. This is the key.

Dorota Warakomska talks to Katarzyna Żak

Photo: Iza Grzybowska

• Katarzyna Żak – film, television and theatre actress and vocalist. She gained popularity thanks to her roles in the series “Miodowe lata” and “Ranczo”, in which she played the role of Solejukowa.

The interview was published in "Wysokie Obcasy” magazine from 31 October 2020